User talk:Dotz
= deleted honorverse articles from wikipedia = Triumphant-class In the Honorverse, the battleship used to be the heaviest capital ship in any navy, until the introduction of the dreadnoughts and superdreadnoughts. No longer considered a "ship of the wall" and thought incapable of withstanding a major naval engagement, most major navies phased out their battleships. Minor navies still used them, but they were no match for a ship of the wall. (source?) The People's Republic of Haven did not retire the battleship type completely. With a massive empire to police and protect, the People's Navy needed a large number of heavy warships to maintain a presence. The battleship was the solution to this need, and by the time of the First Haven-Manticore War, the People's Navy had almost four hundred available battleships to cover the Republic's systems from raiding Manticoran forces. The Triumphant-class was the latest battleship class in the People's Navy. Even though Havenite commanders knew the battleships were no match for a ship of the wall, the People's Navy tried to use this vast number of relatively heavily-armed warships in several offensive operations, compensating for their weaknesses with numbers. Most of these operations, such as the attack on Yeltsin's Star depicted in Flag in Exile and the Second Battle of Hancock Station (Echoes of Honor), failed miserably when the battleships were forced to fight against more modern classes of warships such as superdreadnoughts or LAC carriers. Torch Torch is a planet in the Honorverse a fictional universe in David Weber's book series about Honor Harrington, first appearing in the first novel in a sub-series Crown of Slaves Honor Harrington. Torch (then commonly called Congo, though its Manpower Inc owners preferred Verdant Vista) was established by Manpower Inc as an industrial planet, specializing in manufacturing pharmaceuticals the tropical rain forest covering nearly the entire planet. Its workforce consisted almost entirely of genetic slaves, and there was a breeding station for them as well. It was captured by the Audubon Ballroom with support from elements of the Royal Manticoran Navy, the Solarian League Navy, the local Solarian League sector Governor, the Erewhonese government, and the Republic of Haven. On the advice of Web Du Havel, himself an escaped slave and Nobel-Shakria winning political scientist, it became a monarchy, with Berry Zilwicki as its first Queen. Much of the action in the Crown of Slaves novel presages a new series of stories in the Honorverse. According to Baen Books the next Honorverse novel will feature more details on this conflict on the emerging conflict between the Star Kingdom of Manticore, Torch, and most likely the Republic of Haven on the one hand, and Mesa and Manpower Inc on the other. Grayson Space Navy The Grayson Space Navy is the space force for the planet Grayson, a space nation in the Honor Harrington universe created by the science fiction author David Weber. In the internal history of the Honorverse, Grayson was settled by emigrants from Earth motivated by their religion, which called for a withdrawal from the technocratic society of Earth, a society the future inhabitants of Grayson believed to be subversive of true human potential and spirituality. The planet picked for the settlememnt was one very rich in heavy metals; local life had adapted, but human settlers suffered a very high death rate as well as a high rate of non-lethal, but debilitating poisonings from the high environmentyal levels of lead, mercury and antimony. The settlers' biology has partially adapted since, but to this day, agriculture on Grayson remains a chancy undertaking, and food Graysonites eat with safety can still poison an outsider. Until Grayson joined the Manticoran Alliance, the Grayson Navy was hopelessly obsolete, and most of it was destroyed during a brief war with its neighbor Masada, just before it officially joined the Manticoran Alliance (Two Manticoran destroyers were also lost during the incident, with two cruisers badly damaged.) After joining the Alliance, Grayson received massive technological boosts from Manticore, and quickly rebuilt its navy with the new technology. Grayson ships are different from Manticoran, Havenite, and Andermani ships in that they mount fewer weapons, but the weapons themselves are much larger. Later Manticoran and Grayson ship designs were designed in concert and are largely similar in design and function, and newer Manticoran designs have been influenced by the success of Grayson-designed ships. Due to difficulties developing fusion technology, the Graysons continued to use fission reactors long after other nations had switched to fusion power. This meant that the Graysons developed fission reactors that were far smaller, safer, and more efficient than almost anywhere else in the galaxy. This technology was taken by Manticore, and used to develop more advanced reconnaissance drones, LACs, and, eventually, missiles. Also, in developing their own version of the inertial compensator, the Graysons used a method that "everyone knew wouldn't work," but which actually did. Manticore perfected this technology once the Graysons demonstrated that it was practical, giving the alliances ships a decided advantage in acceleration over the Havenites. The Grayson Navy consists of its main navy, with its regular chain of command, and the Protector's Own Squadron, which answers directly to the Protector, ruler of Grayson, and is currently commanded by Fleet Admiral Steadholder Honor Harrington, the Protector's Champion, with Admiral Alfredo Yu as her second-in-command. The Protector's Own is an oddity in itself, since a large portion of its personnel are expatriates and former prisoners of the People's Republic of Haven, which the Manticoran Alliance is currently at war with. The Grayson Navy wears a uniform which resembles the United States Air Force uniform of blue jacket and trousers, light-blue shirt, visored cap, and necktie. (This was done by Weber to annoy a good friend of his who was a historical buff and who disliked the USAF uniform.) Grayson Navy ship classes and ships Superdreadnoughts *''Manticore's Gift''-class (11 vessels): This class consists of eleven captured and refurbished People's Navy DuQuesne-class superdreadnoughts. **GNS Manticore's Gift **GNS Courageous **GNS Furious **GNS Glorious **GNS Magnificent **GNS Terrible **GNS Vengeance *''Benjamin the Great''-class: The first Grayson-designed and built class of ships of the wall. With the advent of pod-laying superdreadnoughts, these ships were retained as "command superdreadnoughts". Only three were made of this class **GNS Benjamin the Great - The flagship of Admiral Hamish Alexander during his command of Eighth Fleet *''Honor Harrington''-class: The Grayson Navy's variant of the Royal Manticoran Navy's Medusa-class superdreadnoughts. Both classes were the first pod-laying (capable of deploying hundreds of missile-launching pods) superdreadnoughts ever built in the Honorverse. Appear to be named for Steadholders, with the lead ship of the class christened when Steadholder Harrington was believed to have been captured and executed by the Havenites. **GNS Honor Harrington **GNS Isaiah Mackenzie **GNS Edward Esterhaus **GNS George Hanson * **GNS Hector Ferelli * **GNS Abraham Honeywell * **GNS Isaac Santorini * **GNS Barbara Bancroft * **GNS Jason Mueller * **GNS Howard MacLenmore * **GNS Jasper Johansen * **GNS Andrew Massengil * **GNS Mason Luttrell * **GNS Seneca Gilmore * Steadholder Denevski-class: An unseen class of warship, presumably superdreadnaught class, which had their fusion drives canabilized to rush the production of the Harrington-class. This slowed their final construction until after the GNS Honor Harrington. Presumably a pre-pod type of warship, indicating that probably few were made in favour of the more powerful Harrington's. *''Honor Harrington-B''-class: Possibly the Grayson variant of the Manticoran Medusa-B-class, though it might be a different design. LAC Carriers *''Covington''-class **GNS Covington **GNS Austin Grayson **GNS Judah **GNS Glory **GNS Saul **GNS David Battlecruisers *''Raoul Courvosier''-class: Grayson's first indigenous battlecruiser design, named after the senior Manticoran officer at the Battle of First Yeltsin. **GNS Madrigal **GNS Raoul Courvosier **GNS Bernard Yanakov - Presumably destroyed. *''Raoul Courvosier II''-class: An improved version of the Courvosier-class with pod-laying capabilities and advanced systems. As the Battle Cruiser was carrying missile pods, it was decided to greatly reduce the typical broadside missile tubes common on battle cruisers, in favour of more, and heavier, energy mounts for close-in fighting. Named for important or famous Grayson's. **GNS Bernard Yanakov * **GNS Janice Yountz * **GNS Alice Manwairing * **GNS Michael Riaan * **GNS Randolph Candless * Heavy Cruisers *''Jason Alvarez''-class: The first class of heavy cruisers built by Grayson. Named in honour of the Manticoran destroyer captain who fought in the Battle of First Yeltsin. **GNS Jason Alvarez Light Cruisers *''Austin Grayson''-class: A small and obsolete class of three light cruisers that predated Grayson's alliance with Manticore. **GNS Austin Grayson **GNS Covington **GNS Glory *''Nathan''-class: New light cruisers built after the Grayson-Masada war. **GNS Nathan Other Cruisers **GNS Francis Mueller Destroyers *''Ararat''-class: A small and obsolete class of four destroyers that predated Grayson's alliance with Manticore. All four ships were lost during the Grayson-Masada war. **GNS Ararat **GNS David **GNS Saul **GNS Judah Those ships marked with a (*) were mentioned in a post by David Weber as forming part of Honor Harrington's fleet during the Second Battle of Marsh, see http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/Harrington/hh_ob_1920_second_marsh.htm Deneb Accords In David Weber's science fiction novels set in the Honorverse, the Deneb Accords are the generally accepted rules of war. They were sponsored by the Solarian League at Deneb. The Deneb Accords are similar to the Geneva Conventions in that they are meant to protect the rights of military personnel in times of war, defending them from abuse and torture. The Accords regulate, among many other things, the exchange of prisoners of war between belligerent parties, the supervision and inspection of POW and internment camps by neutral third parties (usually the Solarian League). The Accords also forbid the trial of captured enemy military personnel during wartime, except on cases which the defendants were accused of violating their own nations' code of conduct. A notable provision of the Accords is Section Twenty-Seven which prohibited any trial of enemy personnel in time or war. There are two subsection that are known , Subsection Forty-One and Subsection Forty-Two. Subsection Forty-One provides that the Accords' protections and safeguards would not apply to captured combatants who were also convicted criminals prior to the outbreak of hostilities, allowing the capturing party to treat them as criminals. This was one of the first major amendments to the accords, following the abuse of the Accords by using freed criminals to prosecute wars against the nations which had convicted them. Subsection Forty-Two specifically provided for wartime trials of individuals for alleged violation of local laws (example is the tribunal of captured State Security forces on Hell by the Peeps' own UCC, since Hell had been sovereign territory of the People's Republic of Haven at the time) predating their capture, but prohibited ex post facto trials under the municipal law of whoever captured them. Subsection Forty-One's most infamous use was to justify Honor Harrington's planned execution by using a trumped-up in absentia death conviction for allegedly destroying an unarmed merchant vessel (actually a Havenite Q-Ship engaged in hostile actions against Manticore). Cherwell Convention In David Weber's Honorverse, the Cherwell Convention is an agreement outlawing slavery in the space controlled by signatory nations. Almost all major star nations are signatories, though that does not prevent many from ignoring the provisions of the Convention when it suits them. Historically, the star nations that most reliably enforce the Convention over their spheres of control are the Star Kingdom of Manticore and the (People's) Republic of Haven. On the other hand, the Silesian Confederacy and Solarian League have often suffered from deep corruption on the issue, despite the fact that they are official signatories of the Convention. The conflict between the slave-breeders Manpower Incorporated of Mesa on one hand and the Manticorans and Havenites on the other has led to a great deal of conflict over the centuries, and a wave of assassinations carried out by Manpower in an attempt to prolong the current war between Manticore and Haven. One notable provision of the Cherwell Convention is its equipment clause, which states that possession of equipment that can be used to contain or transport slaves is a violation of the convention, even if the equipment is not being used to hold slaves at the time of its seizure. Not all signatories of the Convention support this clause (most notably Solarians and Silesians), but Manticoran and Havenite navies enforced it strictly since its very inception. Masada Masada is a fictional star nation featured in David Weber's Honorverse. Located in the Endicott Star System, it is home to a society of religious fanatics dedicated to the eventual conquering of the planet Grayson. Masada first appeared in The Honor of the Queen, and has played a role in a number of the later books. Their name is a reference to the fortress of Masada where a group of Jews made their last stand against the Romans History The Masadans are former inhabitants of the planet Grayson who were exiled after a bitter 14 Terran-year Civil War which ravaged the planet. The forefathers of the Masadans, who called themselves the "Faithful", opposed the Church of Humanity Unchained's revised doctrine on technology that contrasted with Rev. Austin Grayson's original dictum that technology was evil, and sought to take control of Grayson's government. Their attempted coup, led by Steadholder Bancroft, caused the deaths of Protector John Mayhew II and fifty-three Moderate Steadholders and their heirs, but they failed to kill John's son and heir Benjamin. Benjamin escaped to another Steading and led the resistance against the Faithful. Steadholder Bancroft's wife Barbara revealed the existence of a Faithful doomsday weapon to the Moderates, leading to a final offensive and a treaty between the Moderates and the Faithful. Barbara Bancroft is revered in Grayson as a heroine and is known as the Mother of Grayson, but to Masadans she became "The Harlot of Satan", the ultimate symbol of evil and the responsible of the "Second Fall of Man". Several chemical-powered (non-impeller) sublight ships were loaded with the surviving Faithful and departed for the nearby Endicott System, where they founded the colony of Masada. Ironically, Masada is a more hospitable world than Grayson, but Masadans vowed to reconquer Grayson from the hands of the "Apostate". Current status The Masadan theocracy allied with the People's Republic of Haven, in an attempt to conquer their moderate neighbors. The first attacks crippled the Grayson Navy (and a Manticoran destroyer). Masada's military offensive was due to be followed by a coup d'état by Protector Benjamin's cousin Jared Mayhew, known as "Maccabeus". A series of joint Manticore-Grayson counterstrikes destroyed the Masadan fleet and advanced bases before the Masadans turned on the Havenites and seized control of the Havenite battlecruiser PNS Saladin (or Thunder of God, as the Masadans called her). Thunder of God's destruction by Honor Harrington's squadron marked the end of the last Grayson-Masada War, as a task force led by Admiral Hamish Alexander invaded and seized Masada. In later novels it became known that Masada was placed under a Manticoran protectorate. The planet is under Manticoran military administration, led by General Marcel. Masada is in a constant state of violence, forcing the Manticoran occupation to declare martial law. The murder of Masadan church officials and husbands (usually by their wives) is common. The most famous of these was the grotesque but "artistic" murder of former Elder Simonds by his wives; it should be noted that not all of Simonds' body parts have been accounted for. A joint Manticore-Grayson fleet squadron pickets the Endicott System. Masada has shown a history of off-world terrorism. A group of Masadan terrorists (unknowingly in Havenite pay) have been responsible for the destruction of the Manticoran royal yacht HMS Queen Adrienne, resulting in the deaths of Manticore's Prime Minister Allen Summervale, Earl Gold Peak (Manticore's Foreign Secretary), the Chancellor of Grayson, Henry Prestwick and many other major figures of both Grayson and Manticoran governments. Another Masadan terrorist group was responsible for the attempted -- and failed -- kidnapping of Ruth Winton, a member of the Manticoran royal family whose father was a Masadan privateer, on The Wages of Sin space station in Erewhon orbit. In addition, Masadans often find their ways onto the crews of pirate vessels. = cMonth = In State Security Naval Forces (great article by the way), some months are preceded by a c. Is that a typo or a calendar variation I'm not familiar with? I'm serious as I haven't read all the books but do know there are varying nomenclatures to time and date. CIC 13:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC) :Well, problem is I only suppose that "c" is for "circa". So when I know exact year, and the monthly date is approximation I put "c" before month name. However I'm not the first who months preced by a "c", check for more examples at wikipedia. Btw I have to check in books about dates typing ("c").--dotz 05:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC) ::Good Job on the article. --Farragut79 22:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC) =Administrator= You and SaganamiFan are now Administrators. Congratulations. --Farragut79 06:10, 30 September 2008 (UTC) :Fail not in this charge at your peril.--dotz 07:49, 30 September 2008 (UTC) Wikipedia links Hi, Dotz I just removed some old Wikipedia links from the articles you saved on this talk page, so that they don't appear on the wanted articles special page any more. -- SaganamiFan 14:33, 6 October 2008 (UTC) Captain of the List - Drakensis Captain of the List is the offical name of the rank in Manticoran terms - as well as Captain (SG); couple Captain JG/Captain SG looks similar to Lieutenant SG/JG; showed in Ranks as equal names now (behind the scenes - "CSG" term was probably implemented to the series later) if you take a look at Honor's thoughts at the end of On Basilisk Station she considers it the path to flag rank, rather than a flag rank herself - right (that's why I said it wasn't explained well, there are other books also), I'll try to find some counter-quotations Captains have commanded squadrons ... - right, HH3 and HH6 HH commands aren't comparable - first one was just a temporary escort, not a "regular" squadron, second one - a tiny TG - was even more than squadron in terms of fleet organization; as CO of TG 1037 HH should have her own staff; Cardoness got flag captain duties than; Squadron command is flag post anyway. but they are not '''considered' flag officers'' - a question of assesment and further research (mine at least, any help is welcome) This seems to be a parallel to the Royal Navy's Post-Captains from Hornblower era - Hornblower references are fine, but they are just parallels, not exact RMN rules.--dotz 20:58, 13 December 2008 (UTC) * Some additional real world info: wikipedia:Flag officer#United States--dotz 21:13, 13 December 2008 (UTC) * Well, according to wikipedia:Royal Manticoran Navy#Ranks it's not a flag rank (but...collar insignia similar to commodore).--dotz 22:23, 13 December 2008 (UTC) * Discussion was a bit not exact - we have not flag rank definition in Honorverse. Anyway - Captains (SG) probably had no own flag (not mentioned in Jayne's)--dotz 18:38, 15 December 2008 (UTC) Glad to be here You are "Dotz Holiday" on Wikipedia, right? Hope to see you back there again, too :) --Piotrus 16:35, 12 April 2009 (UTC) :Kingdom of Poland 1916 - positive (after a few years, when I improve Polish article, a play as tough as creating a short book), Honorverse - inserting links here only (or really necessary corrections).--dotz 20:24, 12 April 2009 (UTC) Re: Welcome Hey, thanks for the "Welcome aboard". I'm still trying to get to know how things are done in this wiki. I hope I can contribute some good work soon.--Bravomike 17:29, 14 June 2009 (UTC) :So I'm not the only one musing about the Andies German ;) I've created some demo templates, what do you think? I have to admit, it was not my idea, we use templates like this at the MA for some time, but I clearly remember the work introducing them in a wiki with 9,000+ articles, and I don't want to have this again, so we should think about it now.--Bravomike 21:23, 14 June 2009 (UTC) HI! I forgot to log in before I added something to the Honor Harrington article. I composed the article in Word and block-copied from the clipboard. some of it looks strange and I don't know how to make it look like the rest of the text. It's a lot easier to add links with the new editor.--Adriennedillon 04:24, 27 June 2009 (UTC) Jaynes Hey Dotz, I've finally answered the questions you left me on my talk page. --ThomastheCat 22:11, 30 July 2009 (UTC) Canon Issues From everything I've read, the Jayne's Intelligence Reviews are Canon. But how is the Honorverse Wiki the rest of the Saganami Island Tactical Simulator books like Ship Book 2: The Silesian Confederacy. Just hoping for some clarification.--Sfire 16:35, 19 July 2009 (UTC) Honorverse:Honor International Hi, Dotz! As you can see, I have created a little project to collect the international titles of the Honorverse novels. Maybe you could find some time to add the Polish titles and adequate translations? Thank you and best regards. -- SaganamiFan (Talk) 18:44, 30 July 2009 (UTC) Treecats Hey Dotz, thanks for getting in on the discussion. The treecat list can be found somewhere in the history of the Treecat article, but I removed it after individual articles for all 'cats had been created, so the Category:Treecats is essentially the same list now... -- SaganamiFan (Talk) 18:19, 26 August 2009 (UTC) :I've now noticed your comment at SF's talk, and came here to respond. As near as I can tell, SF is right about the various articles adding up to the list. It was originally put together for the treecat article, was removed to its own article by someone who thought treecat too long, despite my protests. There were short notes with each cat, too short I thought for individual articles, and in any case minor characters in fictional series didn't seem to me to be suited to WP's remit. Looking at one or two here, I still think they're too short for good encyclopedia style, even on a wiki devoted to HH. :Your comment about articles being best arranged as pointer collections is one I cannot agree with. On behalf of Our Gentle Reader, we should not force them to chase around following links in order to understand the subject at hand. Obviously, this is likely to be a matter of some dispute -- "...my 'enough in the instant article to make sense to the Reader' is your 'just a collection of pointers' is his 'have to do both and so unacceptable''...'. :Finally, SF hasn't, except in passing addressed the issue of awkward tense as a result of adopting what seems clearly to me to be an ill advised policy. Too tidy to be compatible with fluency in article writing. Your opinion is...? wikipedia ww (got myself logged off somehow) 15:25, September 2, 2009 (UTC)